EVANGELICAL & MORMON DIALOGUE #4
Here’s the digest version of the rest of my notes from the dialogue last week. I’m just going to summarize rather than go into a lot of detail. Before launching into it, though, I want to explain that my notes overemphasize Mormon information (I already know what evangelicals think!!!). The thing that stood out and which I took away from the dialogue was a sense of just how fluid revelation is for Mormons. I now understand why all the tracts and books pointing out contradictions between earlier and later LDS writings are so easily brushed off. The historical contradictions don’t really doesn’t matter if the final say on doctrine is the current church prophet(s).

The other thing that stood out for me was just how open and approachable the Mormon scholars were – relaxed, friendly, and not the least bit defensive (considering that most of the participants were Evangelicals and the whole event was held at Fuller Seminary, the largest seminary in the US. I appreciated the tone and candor. I think that Richard Mouw, president of Fuller, had a lot to do with that.

Richard Bushman, Mormon scholar and professor at Columbia University spoke on “Joseph Smith and Democracy”:

+ “Mormonism, though called an American religion, was never at home in 19th century America...”

+ There is a systemic conflict between Mormonism and democracy. That is, how can a democracy, where the will of the people is supreme, tolerate a religion that says the voice of God is supreme and that voice is heard in a prophet?

+ Thus Joseph Smith was accused of antinomianism.

+ Mormons are pluralists – recognizing the rights of other religions to exist.

+ Joseph Smith’s desire was to disperse power and make everyone a prophet – thus the lay priesthood.

+ The internal government of the church is not democratic – which leads to conflict in a society which values total democracy.

+ The ethos of democracy is vigilance. The ethos of Mormonism is submissiveness. Thus there is no public accounting of church finances.

+ Church members can live with this bifurcation of powers because of “redemptive authority” and the moral environment of the institution.

Robert Millet (BYU) & Greg Johnson (Evangelical pastor and director of Standing Together) had a discussion – a snip here (not totally verbatim):

GJ: Do Mormons view the Fall as a good thing?

RM: LDS thinking on the Fall is optimistic. The Fall was “downward and forward.” Citing C.S. Lewis, redeemed man has more glory than unfallen man. It was a fortunate fall because it led to the atonement. We don’t believe in original sin but our theology comes close... “We are conceived in sin.” The only way out is the redemption of Christ. If there is a temptation on the part of the LDS it is to not take the fall seriously.

Someone in the audience asked Millet if we are saved by grace. His response: By grace alone? Yes and no. Salvation is the gift of God. You don’t earn a gift. God promises to do for us what we could never do on our own. But for us grace is not just that final boost. It is the enabling power to do what we couldn’t do on our own. Many LDS misinterpret Nephi to understand that Jesus fills in the gaps. The works of man are a necessary but insufficient condition for salvation.

Millet on prophets: “Most anti-Mormon literature is based on peripheral stuff. We don’t believe in infallibility of prophets... Because something was said in the past doesn’t mean that it’s a part of the doctrine of the church.”

Timothy Webber (Northern Baptist Seminary and soon to be president of Memphis Theological Seminary) spoke on millennial movements.

+ Successful millennial movements need to be precise about when Christ will return and how he should come and what to do about it.

+ Many millenarians experience success after their failure – including Joseph Smith and Mormonism. e.g. Smith prophesied that Zion should be gathered in Missouri but it
wasn’t until after the Mormons were driven out that they prospered as a movement.

+ Mormon millenialism is anchored in the belief of continuing revelation. And having a living prophet was not easy. It was Mormonism’s greatest blessing and burden – with continuous change in doctrine and domiciles.

+ Mormonism survived in spite of prophetic disconfirmation – because of their ability to adjust their message and refocus the church in a different direction. Prophets were so skilled at coming up with responses to disconfirmation that most Mormons do not see the disconfirmation.

+ How is it that Mormon prophets are not infallible but the early arguments for the church were that there were too many unauthoritative teachers (in the American religious landscape).

+ “I see Mormonism as one of the great surviving millennial movements because they came up with ways of explaining their disconfirmation.”

+ Robert Millet responded saying that Mormons distinguish between conditional and non-conditional prophecies.

Richard Bennett (BYU) talked about renewal in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. There are six principles of revitalization:

1. Revelation – ongoing. Mormons have a feeling of great affection for their prophets.

2. Missionary work – the missionary youth movement presents a youthful face to the church. However, LDS missionaries are not as successful as in previous days. For example in 1960 each missionary was responsible for 3 converts.
1970 – 5.1 converts
1980 – 7 converts
1990 – 7.5 converts
2000 – 4.5 converts

3. The concept of gathering and sense of place
Originally the sign of conversion was a mater of moving to the gathering. But now the “gathering” has been reinterpreted and there are gathering places in all nations (“stakes” in the gathering tent).

4. Lay ministry

5. Covenants and ordinances – temples predated chapels. They currently have 115 temples.

6. Emphasis on personal conversion.